Thursday, July 30, 2009

Ortiz lied to us

A Sox player gets caught up in controversy and Mr Knee-Jerk is itching to chime in right away.

You knew this was coming. The question was how quickly it would take to Dan write about it. The answer: Not long. The Globe even videotaped Dan at his desk talking about David Ortiz' name popping up on the infamous Steroid 103 list. Dan probably wrote this article a year ago and has been waiting and waiting to hit the publish button.

Yet again, this is piss-poor journalism. Yet again, this is Shaughnessy. Who is the fraud? Ortiz, quite possibly. Shaughnessy, most definitely

There are anonymous sources who say Ortiz is on the list. Yet, Ortiz says he did not even know. There is no corroboration. There is no indication of what he tested positive for. There is no due process. Yet, this doesn't stop Shaughnessy (and pretty much the entire press for that matter) for declaring him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Shaughnessy emphatically and dramatically starts his column, "David Ortiz lied to you. It seems safe to say that his entire Red Sox career is a lie."

When did Ortiz lie to me? What proof do you have Shaughnessy that he lied to me? Have you done any damn bit of investigation to give us any more than an anonymous source? Shaughnessy, you may end up being right but yet again, you have engaged in lazy, wreckless and knee-jerk journalism. Unfortunately, it is a sad commentary on the state of journalism that you are not alone here.

And, Shaughnessy why do you even bother anymore? For the second straight time this week, you have simply said pretty much the same thing Massarotti did. So not only are you a lazy hack, you are redundant.


Anonymous said...

I said it when Bonds was outed..I said it when Arod was outed...I said it when Manny was outed and I'll say it now that Ortiz has been outed.....I couldn't care less about roids...PLAY BALL!...predicted shelf life of this story?....2 to 2 and a half weeks. (about the same as Arod)

Anonymous said...

The Truth of the Matter....

When will we all be accountable?

The Shank got off his perch high on the Patriot Place Ivory tower and took time to visit the mob of us fans. Isn’t it funny how The Typist always has to “report” from a distance? The Shank, the fool that he is, thinks he has a privileged perspective and gets to “spy” on “The Cheats”, but as Dave M. accurately points out, the Shanks a cheatin’ all the time.

So the Truth is there are many cheats in the story. The Owners (need cash, ego gratification), The Players (need cash and ego enlargement), The Media (need cash and finger licking), and The Fans (give cash and mindless attention)

And for what? To be entertained!

The Shank continues to claim that the game has been tainted. Is this Shankster for real?

Baseball has had many problems throughout it’s “racey” history. Look at the racism that existed until 1947. Boy I bet Ty Cobb is the ideal “gentlemen” that many fathers would want to introduce to their daughters. What reality! How can the HOF have any relevance if discrimination kept players from participating in the competition?

The point = the game evolved away from racism and it will evolve from the steroids era.

Shank, please get back up on the perch so that the world can laugh at you.


ObjectiveBruce said...

Shaughnessy nailed it.

"David Ortiz looks like one of the television evangelists who gets caught in a seedy motel with a hooker."

The most predictable part of all this is the reaction of fan boy bloggers.

Boo-hoo. Ortiz is no better than Rodriguez.

Paul said...

No, not "Mr. Knee-Jerk". Just Mr. Jerk.

Anonymous said...


I think you meant “Shaughnessy Failed It!”

Perhaps if the theme of his article was “Lying Liars and the Reporters Who Enable Them” then we could give him some relevance.

Most intelligentsia (fans included) were aware of the Steroid Agents and their enabling media whores.

Since 1991 name one time that the Shank “investigated” the steroid problem and reported to the minions. That would’ve taken balls.

Otherwise, it’s boo-hoo to the media darlings.

The Shank is just another Tabloid Typist.


David said...


Is there not a place for due process even if it plays out in public and Ortiz comes clean (Like ARod did to some degree)? Until then, this piece by Mr Shaughnessy is premature overreaction and lazy. The only thing Shaughnessy nailed was another nail in his coffin.


Anonymous said...


Ah, the douchiness has not left you, bunky!

Riddle me this, what's the difference between "fan boy bloggers" and Shaughnessy? The fan boys will have have livelihoods in a few years. CHB won't.

Please say hi to Head Buggy Whip Maker Baron for me, will ya?

Your pal,


Anonymous said...

Another example of his lack of research was this line, "He must have known. Players who tested positive in 2003 must have been told by the players association."
Couldn't Shank have found out if they were notified?

Personally I don't care about a failed urine test from six years ago, before there was any policy or punishment in baseball. If he tested positive in 2009 that would be a different story.

What's particularly galling about this episode is that the law was broken by unnamed sources in releasing Papi's name. That's the story. That's what the media should be going after.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 10:48 AM has a point.

Check out the “investigative” reporting done by the LA Times:

“In May, when Ramirez withdrew his appeal and accepted the suspension, he issued a statement in which he said he had "taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons."

That would not have included the 2003 season, when the owners and the union agreed to a one-year survey program in which players would not be identified or punished for testing positive.

If more than 5% of the tests were positive -- and they were -- then baseball would adopt a program in which players testing positive could be identified and suspended.

As part of the BALCO investigation, federal agents seized the list of the 104 players who tested positive in 2003. The commissioner's office and the union have asked a California court to ensure the anonymity promised to players.

In a statement Thursday, the union said it would take "appropriate legal steps" to enforce the court seal. Indeed, the union said that it could not comment publicly on whether Ramirez had tested positive because those results remained under seal.

BALCO founder Victor Conte, who served four months in federal prison for steroid distribution and money laundering, said he suspected government attorneys were responsible for disclosing the names of Ramirez and others on the list.

"What is the motive? The same motive you have with Barry Bonds being charged with perjury when others have done the same thing and not been charged. It seems to be about publicity," Conte said, the government "justifying its existence after spending all these millions on this case."

So there seems to be an agenda out there. Why not investigate that breach of trust? Isn’t that as much a crime as doping is?

Geez, The Shank has now graduated from the Village Idiot to The Dope.

Most fans understand the “contract” we have with our entertainers and how we will let some things slide on by, but for the media to treat us as morons is unacceptable.


mike_b1 said...

If The CHB nailed it, what took him so long? He's reacting to a story that was sourced by someone else -- a New York Times reporter, no less! -- and insofar as I'm aware The CHB had never pegged Papi as a PED user.

Chalk this up as yet another in a long line of after-the-fact tsk-tsk's by the Boston sportswriting scene's version of Don Quixote.

He was totally scooped on the biggest story on the biggest baseball player in his own town.


Anonymous said...

Someone at the Herald is digging deeper into the story.

Also, it seems that the Players Union already has a line of defense as explained by Bronson Arroyo:

"Arroyo, who pitched for the Red Sox from 2003 to 2005, said he took androstenedione, which was banned in 2004, as well as amphetamines, which were banned in 2006, according to the Herald report. He said he gave up taking andro, a steroid precursor, when a rumor spread through baseball that due to lax production standards, some of it was laced with steroids.

In addition, Canseco states:

"If the players turn on Major League Baseball, it's going to get far worse and ugly," he said. "They created this mess because they couldn't control the list of 104. Baseball could be looking at a major class-action lawsuit if the players decide to band together. This list was supposed to be confidential. We're seeing that, like Watergate, the cover-up always blows up in your face. It may take five, 10, 15 years, but the forensic files always seem to surface. Again, tell me if I've ever lied when it comes to this?"

So the lines are being drawn and the Shank, the Dope that he is, can't even connect the dots.

This will play itself out during the next Players/Owners negotiation and my money is on the players.


ObjectiveBruce said...

Let the excuse-making continue!

Apparently, Shaughnessy has no right to comment on Ortiz's name being on the positive list because the story broke elsewhere.

That's absurd. Thousands of reporters didn't report that Ortiz's name was on the list -- do they lose their right to comment because someone else broke it?

Of course, it was a newspaper that broke the story, which no doubt bugs the mom's basement crowd no end.

What would the reaction have been if the name leaked this week was Derek Jeter rather than David Ortiz?

I think we know the answer.

Anonymous said...


You're missing the point.

Believe Canseco when he states that over 90% of the players were doping.

What you see now is the struggle between "the list holders" and MLB/Players.

If I read into what Bronson Arroyo is claiming it could very well be that "someone" with an agenda went in and "tainted" the then legal androstenedione with steroids. Let's see, who would have the most to gain in that scenario?

The point isn't who broke the story first. It should be who can dig deep into the mess to get to the truth.

Also, read Bill James piece on the future of steroids in baseball. As much as I dislike his "Sabermetrics", at least admits that he can not change the future ahead of us. See "Coopertown and Roids" by Bill James'Roids_F2.pdf

Keep on Shanking!


mike_b1 said...

OB, obviously The CHB is very late to this party. Badly. And obviously he was scooped. Badly. Even you must admit those two things.

Moreover, it's highly disingenuous for a writer who repeatedly feted these players to now throw fuel on the fire. It makes The CHB look like a hypocrite. Which he is, of course, but only a drunken idiot would leave that out there if he doesn't have to.

mike_b1 said...

P.S. Why would I be bothered if a newspaper broke the story? I'm in the media.

Anonymous said...

Rumor has it CHB is actually a chick. Now I can't quote my source on that.

Anonymous said...

Dan Shaughnessy has no respect for the city of Boston nor baseball. This whole Ortiz substance abuse accusation are obviously fabricated. Where the hell did this list come from? 103 people are on it and they only realize Big Papi did steroids after 6 years? COME ON! Ortiz has always been a big and great player. I suppose his early season slump this year was because he ran out of roids? He would never do steroids nor does he need them. It's not like he was a slim guy then became a beast in 03. If they were going to invent a time he did it wouldn't it have been simpler to say he did it when he hit 52 homers? The whole thing is an adorable little attempt by the New York Times (go figure)to get the Red Sox franchise off their game going into the second half and playoffs. Probably also hoped it would take much of the attention so that our trade deadline movements would be overseen. DAVID ORTIZ DID NOT DO STEROIDS, Dan Shaughnessy is a joke and always had something against Big Papi. Thanks for reading the RIGHT OPINION.

ObjectiveBruce said...

Ok, Mike, let me get this straight.

1. If a player has a good season, and you say "wow he had a good season" you are forever barred from saying, "gee that good season was tainted, I'm disappointed."

2. No person in the news media has the right to comment on a story if someone else breaks the story first.

3. Failure to break a story, especially one based solely on the leaking of a confidential document, means one is a bad reporter, horrid person and hypocrite with no standing to comment.

Thank you for this, shall we say "interesting?" view of the world.

Thank you also to "g" for the reference to an interesting take on all of this from Bill James. I am not a devotee of anything sabermetric and consider Earl Weaver, fundamentals, pitching and three-run homers, to be the infrastructure of the sport. But James does make sense in raising legitimate points.

I have yet to hear it explained how steroids or any other PED enhances a player's ability to place bat on ball or paint the black with a pitch. Steroids seem to have a lot to do with muscle mass and power, and their chief value seems to be in recovering from exercise, as they do not automatically "slap" pounds of muscle onto a skinny frame. The player still has to do the work; the drug enhances the efficacy of that work. Maybe bat speed is enhanced by PEDs, but I'm not sure any drug can enhance the fundamental ability to make the stick contact a baseball traveling at frightening speeds and taking sudden and explosive breaks whcih must be reacted to in nearly incalculable flashes of time. Perhaps a 300 foot fly out becomes a 450 foot home run, but the plaer still had to have sufficient eye-hand coordination to hit the baseball and I'm not sure there will ever be a pill for that.

Anonymous said...


You underestimate the potential for good that contributors to the DSW make.

There is no need to refer to people as “fan boy bloggers” or basement dwelling whatever’s.

The common theme behind the “contributors” is that we demand works of quality from the media. To me The Shank smells of Sensationalism, he sells Pessimism, and lacks Guts.

I.E. – John Powers of the Globe writes in his “Ortiz, others knew they were on ‘the list’” that “If you were in the game in the last 20 years,’’ Canseco told ESPN, “there’s a 95 percent chance that you were knowingly using something.’’ The article attempts to put a framework behind the Ortiz revelation that everybody was doing roids so what’s the big deal.

Also, you can scan the web and find many references to the common knowledge that we are all cheats in the game because we all knew the game was “enhanced.”

So I beg to ask, where was The Shank? Was he living in the dark ages or did he get stuck high on his perch?

What galls me is how he tries to “profit” by calling Ortiz a cheat and liar. It seems that everyone who participated (owners, media, players and fans) in the MLB during the last 20 years were accomplices.

What is needed to clean up the mess is a true investigative report that gives us insights into who is playing behind the scenes in Steroidgate.

Isn’t it a strange coincidence on how A-Rod is exposed during spring training and then he is sent to DL to lick his wounds. Then Manny is tarred and feathered because of his non-conformist attitude toward “The Nation” last year and then he is burned to the stake by an overt attack by the investigators. Then, in the midst of the “Hot Stove Season” the news of Big Papi/Manny making The List, so that that exposure is subdued by the trade buzzes. Strange coincidence or PR strategy?

There is a power struggle going on behind the scenes. It will take GUTS for a reporter to share it with the fans.

The Shank can’t deliver since he is too busy licking chops.


mike_b1 said...

OB, way to distort what I wrote.

Insofar as PEDs are concerned, I agree. But the ironic thing there is, in that regard you actually DISAGREE with your mancrush, The CHB, who has, with typical CHB-ness, never bothered to do the simple investigation of calling a physiologist or statistician at any of the fine academic institutions in the greater Boston area. Had he placed such a phone call, the person on the other end certainly would have set him straight (get it?).

Anonymous said...

Dan Shaughnessy may have an agenda. Jock sniffing bloggers do too. Apparently, JSB are even lazier than Mr. Shaughnessy and have even worse fact checkers. Let me help you JSB.

JSB - "There are anonymous sources who say Ortiz is on the list. Yet, Ortiz says he did not even know."

Fact - "One, I have already contacted the Players Association to confirm if this report is true. I have just been told that the report is true. Based on the way I have lived my life, I am surprised to learn I tested positive" - David Ortiz

JSB - "When did Ortiz lie to me? What proof do you have Shaughnessy that he lied to me?"

Fact - "I know that I’m going to disrespect my family, the game, the fans, and everybody, and I don’t want to be facing that situation. So what would I do? I won’t use it" - David Ortiz

mike_b1 said...

Hey. Mrs. CHB, thanks for stopping by!

What's worse: Jock-sniffing bloggers, or frigid sportswriter husbands?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 10:24 AM

The Lies argument is for Simpletons.

We have moved beyond that.

The Shank would like to keep us simple so that he can try his "curses" on us and collect his fee from the billionaire owners.

The 30 Owners of MLB are collectively worth more than $15 Billion = they have some clout. The current economic crisis (2001-2009) has put pressure on their personal fortunes outside of MLB. With the fear of dwindling MLB TV revenues, in order to make their “game” work, the Owners need to attack their biggest expense item (The Players).

Given the experiences of the 1994 Strike, the Owners are understandably a little leery so they put their minions to work to find the player’s Achilles’ heal especially with the Collective Bargaining Agreement expiring in 2011.

Aha! The Roids.

I’m sure there’s a “Learning Lesson” in here somewhere.

I just wish a reporter would do their job instead of the “Jock sniffing bloggers” having to ruffle the feathers.

Again, Anonymous at 10:24 AM you should understand that Steroidgate is now entering the legalese phase so all the calculated statements by interested parties (i.e. Ortiz, Shaughnessy, MLB, Union) are all aimed at gaining public sympathy before the battle begins next year.


Anonymous said...

I think ALL OF YOU PEOPLE need to get a grip...when you get right down to it what are we talking about here?.......a bunch of grown men chasing a little white ball that's ahat.....relax for God's sake

mike_b1 said...

Sam Shaughnessy, everyone! Thanks for stopping by, buddy. The whole clan is visiting today, I see.

Guess you have a lot more time on your hand, given your not-so-successful BC baseball career.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 12:38,

Perhaps you are color blind -

"a bunch of grown men chasing a little white ball that's that"

Actually they are chasing many green things that can even make men mutilate each other.


Anonymous said...

I thought Dan wrote pretty well, considering the giant boner he has had since he heard Ortiz was on the list.

Anonymous said...

I love all the Roid talk...please...TELL ME MORE!

David said...

Anon 1024:

Thanks for joining the DSW as our preeminent fact check. It is nice to have a staff!

I just retired from the military after twenty years of service of which I am proud. I can safely assure you that I am well aware that our heroes our not the ones swinging a bat and making $30K a game. The heroes are the kids who make $30K a year (some of whom are on food stamps) and who deploy to places like Iraq and Afghanistan and sacrifice their lives. I am not a "jock sniffer" and I don't live in Ma's basement.

If you look back on all my writings in this blog, my objective is not to glorify the athletes. They don't need glorification. My objective is to demonstrate the many shortfalls in Dan Shaughnessy's writings.

You may have missed it but I did say that Ortiz is "quite possibly" a fraud. There is a lot of smoke surrounding Ortiz and this revelation certainly puts him in a spot where his reputation could take a stunning hit if it hasn't already. So be it. He will have to deal with the mess he has created

What bothers me is that Shaughnessy is such a lazy reactionist. He punches this column out very quickly and he apparently does not know the whole story. And if he does know the whole story, he does a poor job of relaying it to us. What does he know about the sources who revealed this info? What does he know about this 2003 test? What does he know about Ortiz? At one point did Ortiz lie to us?

As for your fact checking, again, welcome to the staff. Great to have you. My point that Ortiz says he did not even know still stands even if he later confirmed that the union told him he was on the list. Ortiz may have been lying when he originally says he did not know but I found it interesting that he says he was not informed. Shaughnessy could have done some digging to find out who was informed and how they were informed about this test. This would have added a lot of persuasion to his argument that Ortiz is a liar but Shaughnessy simply did not research that. As a result, his writing is much less effective and less persuasive.

Thanks for also including the Ortiz quote from earlier this year. First, if Shaughnessy wanted to make his column more effective, he would have included a quote like this. Also, I am guilty of playing Clinton word games, but Ortiz uses the word "won't" which is a future tense. In addition, in the past he has made reference to using protein shakes of which he did not know the content. Again, I am not attempting to protect point is that Shaughnessy is a lazy knee-jerk writer who is more prone to piling on than he is to doing his homework to effectively make a point. There is a lot of smoke around Ortiz. Let those chips fall where they may.

But if Shaughnessy is truly a professional writer, he owes more due diligence to the reader. In light of his repeated lack of due diligence, he is as much as a fraud as is Ortiz. Here is a thought, maybe you should go to work for Shaughnessy as a researcher - he could use the help. I am willing to share your vast talents

Anonymous said...

Check out the Globe Spotlight piece in today's paper called "Sox fired two in steroids case"

Looks like the Sox Ownership and certain media darlings understand PR and the cover-up strategy.

So it seems, last year 3 weeks before he was traded, Ramirez was implicated by none other than the Prince of Red Sox Nation.., Jared Remy.

Where is that Sherriff Jack McCormack when you need him most?

I still stand behind my observations - ownership, media, players are all equally accountable.

I do not agree when certain non-conformist type are singled out and sacrificed to spear the chosen few. That strategy stenches of racism and elitism.


JJS37 said...

I'll give the douche bag one piece of credit: He didn't write the "sanctity of the game" crap.

There is no "sanctity of the game" when the game has been lousy with cheating and scum since day one. Throwing the world series, betting, racism, spitters, stealing signs, greenies, coke (not the "have a coke & a smile" kind either), strikes, phantom tags at second, automatic 3-0 strikes, umps with their own strike zones, press not voting Ted Williams as MVP because the didn't like him.

You name it, baseball has had it. From the owners to the players to the press. They are all guilty.

When Bonds went on that rant years ago about "cleaning up your house" and saying "I don't know what cheating is" he couldn't have been any more correct. He was 100% right.

In some ways, it was a confession, but in all ways, it was the truth.

As for Douche Bag Dan, he always comes out on the side of "told you so." I realize he didn't actually write that, but that's how it always comes out. Like he's the guy taking it all in, who knows everything, but won't talk, until something happens, then we all just sit and wait in hushed silence for the Douche to talk. "Tell us, oh Douche, what this means..."

Who gives a shit what he thinks? He probably still thinks that Larry Bird is a good GM, even though he's had that team nowhere near anything since Reggie Miller retired.

Anyway, baseball is dirty. Duhh. It has been since day one. Anything more than that from ANY writer is just major league BS.

JJS37 said...

Objective Bruce. If you truly are "objective," then when do you criticize Shank? Seriously, if every time there's a side to take, you take his side, that really doesn't make you objective, does it?

I think everyone's criticism of Shank is: He writes hit pieces on people, and it's usually people he doesn't like. And, he writes these from the perspective of never having actually done any investigating/reporting. Basically, any of us could write the same shit he writes from our "mom's basement" (BTW Bruce, a great man once said, and I think it was Jeff Spicoli, "If I'm here, AND your here, doesn't that make it OUR time?" In other words, if we're all the "mom's basement" crowd, then so the fuck are you, asshole.).

So that makes Shank a coward. And when he piles on to stories, and writes the sarcastic shit he writes, people get angered considering the guy works for a paper that is like down the street from Fenway.

And in this case, he didn't stop for two seconds to call up Ortiz and ask for a comment. He's IN THE FUCKING CITY!!! It's not like Shank writes for the Toldeo Tribune. AND, he didn't stop for two seconds to say, "Look, everyone wants to know what's up with Papi. Before we jump down his throat, let's see what he has to say."

I go to another pop reference, which is only 10 or 11 years old, the movie "Rounders." When Matt Damon and Edward Norton's character were cheating at cards in a cops game and got caught, they didn't beat them up. In fact, the cop said, "Let's hear what they have to say..."

And the explanation sucked, and THEN they beat them up.

So why not wait for Papi's explanation? You can't beat him up later?

I think when you look at "steroid guys," and for this we'll go with a short list of "known guys:"


If you look at that entire list, NOT ONE of them told the complete truth the first time around. Pettite admitting to using it "twice" then all of a sudden when threatened with a perjury charge, he got religion and remembered a lot more.

The rest of them had varying degrees of lying, with the possible exception of Knoblauch. No one knew about him until the Clemens crap, and when he was called, he admitted to everything. No explanations. He knew what he was doing was wrong but did it anyway.

Outside of that, they all lied. They all lied. Good guys (Petttite), bad guys (Clemens), in between guys (Tejada, Sosa, McGwire), they all lied.

And why? Because they wanted to save their asses. Which is exactly what almost EVERY SINGLE person would do.

You blow through a stop sign with no one around at night, do you drive to the police station and turn yourself in? Of course not. But if they ask, do you admit it? Maybe, maybe not. That's the difference between Pettitte and Clemens.

But I can guarantee you that no one, NO ONE that list is going to say "Yeah I did it" without knowing ahead of time, "Hey, you're getting outed."

And why should they? They technically didn't do anything wrong. And if Ortiz got his shit in the Dominican, where there's no law against it, did it there, and then came here and tested positive, then he REALLY didn't do a thing wrong.

Cue the amateur lawyers with "How is it different than A-Rod?" A-Rod did it in FLA and that's in the US and it's been illegal here since like '89.

Anyway, Douchey Bruce, to sum up: 1) You're no different than anyone who you make fun of here; 2) Shaughnessy is a fraud and he's basically a blogger. He has no access, no one will talk to him, which is why he has a shot of breaking wind more than he does breaking a story; 3) It's fair criticism of him because he just does the knee-jerk popular opinion bullshit.

There you go jackass.

Paul said...


Bravo! Seriously, awesome post. Probably the best I've seen here.