Saturday, August 02, 2008

Dan goes LA LA

Before you go any further, check bruce's comment in the prior thread. It was a pre emptive post. bruce figured we would question the wisdom of the Globe sending Shaughnessy all the way cross coast to cover Manny's introductory press conference because deep down he recognizes it was a foolhearty decision.

Despite Bruce's claim to the contrary, Shaughnessy's covereage is not particularly spectacular. The Globe editors must have been reading this blog and they realized that Shaughnessy might lose his sanity since he would have no one to attack in Boston anymore. They unleashed him on LA where he could have one more slamfest taking on Manny, Nomar; Boras, and the lob ball press of LA.

Shaughnessy does not disappoint. It actually wasn't too bad of a column although I think there is much more to the claim that the Sox are masters at dissing players on their way out the door, a claim that Shaughnessy quickly dismisses because he himself feeds that monster.

I did enjoy his little musical reference at the end. Boston proved too much for the man. Gladys Knight is smiling somewhere. Now if Shaughnessy were only on the midnight train out of Beantown
(I apologize for not posting links. I have left Ma's basement and am blogging from a cell phone which is a bit tedious)


Anonymous said...


Continuing our comments on demography from previous post ...

You did some work in preparing your counter view but missed the point. So let's try a different tact.

Are you in the mood for some Thoreau?

"It is never too late to give up your prejudices."

"The universe is wider than our views of it."

“A writer who does not speak out of a full experience
uses torpid words, wooden or lifeless words, such words as "humanitary,"
which have a paralysis in their tails.”

Objectivebruce said...

The Manny story didn't end when he got on an airplane. Given the interest in Ramirez as a personality, the excitement with which he was greeted in Los Angeles was a good story. I think a lot of people watched the Dodger cablecast in New England this weekend. Vin Scully was quoting from Shaughnessy's column on Friday night (including, approvingly, the savant line) although without saying specifically who wrote it, and Fox Prime Ticket weaved Manny into the intro by having him hold a series of signs. The Dodgers also claimed 11,000 sales for the first Manny game after the announcement was made and 30,000 in sales for the rest of the season.

Given the way Manny left, the story is not finished until he lands in L.A.

But I'm sure that the Globe makes its coverage decision based on a blog and that editors wree worried that he needed someone "to attack in Boston"

Rest well.

Chris said...

The cost to send Shaughnessy out there to collect a bunch of words that were no different in person than they would be over a wire story probably would equate to a weekly paycheck for a few now-jettisoned workers at the globe (lower case intended). File under, 'pay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtain.'

Dave M said...


My comment about the editors reading this blog was facetious. Sorry it went over your head

As Chris pointed out, Shaughnessy's trip to LA yielded nothing that could not have been gathered had he been sitting in Boston and watching it on TV, save the exact time Manny took off and who sat with him on the plane.

What would have been interesting is more quotes from Torre; quotes from his new teammates; hell even quotes from the fans....but this just shpws you how lazy he is. Really nothing out of the ordinary to offer


JJS37 said...

It's kind of funny about the Dodgers claiming 11,000 "Manny tix," because I watched the first Manny game broadcast on Friday night on MLB extra innings and after Scully made about three or four factual errors along with misidentifying a few people, he said/read the following statement:

"Plenty of good seats available for the (fill in the blank) home game vs. the (fill in the blank of the opposing team).

Yeah, Manny packs them in.

Look, Kobe & Shaq and three titles couldn't get a crowd to a game on time. Manny in a 99 uniform isn't going to make that team care about baseball, so don't feed me "11,000 tix."

When I was a kid, I was wondering why they lit all those lights at Dodger Stadium when Kirk Gibson was hitting a game winning homer in the World Series. Years later I found out it was the brake lights from all the "Dodger Faithful" leaving before the game was over.

I love LA.

Chris said...

Q: How do you know that a team doesn't care about you beyond what you can do for them in two months? How do you know that you could get hit by a bus the day after the season ends, and no one on the team would care? How do you know that, basically, you're a slave?

A: When they assign you uniform number 99.

Anonymous said...


The Globe sent “Shill”ock Dan out to LA to investigate and get the scoop? Doubt it. Most fans of this drama probably perused the internet, filtered out the news weaklings and then appreciated that a new chapter has appeared.

More than likely the Globe sent their “typist” out to stare down Manny, Nomar and Lowe to let them know how tough Beantown is. Who cares? That’s not a real story.

The Idiot Typist and Globe are egocentric. They are just shill’s for the Sox.

Look at what Ede’s did with his “scoop” that Manny “begged” to come back. Great piece of “yankee-doodle” journalism.

I was afraid that Cafardo would be next to throw his hat into the quicksand and then we would have “Three Stooges” on display fighting for the Mon-Stah!

Instead the Globe introduces us to Cullen who tells us about the “pub-holes” he visited to get more “scoops”.

You see the problem with the Globe; they first pitch to us first the Village Idiot, then the Gutless Doodler, and finally the Townie Drunk. What a lineup.

Cafardo, do you want to bat cleanup behind the Headless Horsemen?

Anonymous said...

Funny you mention Gordon Edes, who in my opinion provided the best Red Sox coverage at the Globe. In the article were he defends his assertion that Boras called the Sox and tried to talk them out of the trade there is this line:

"In an interview today on Boston sports radio station WEEI, Edes -- who now writes for Yahoo! sports -- stood by the report."

So Edes is now gone from the Globe? Another one takes the buy out?

Anonymous said...

Angels with Dirty Faces
Edes to yahoo?

You mean the Globe didn’t have options on Edes for the next 2 years and he was free to go?

He did played his part well - the good ole’ company man, always serving us vanilla even though our palettes wanted rocky-road.

I just thought it was shameful of him and the Globe specifically, to stoop so low in their pursuit of journalistic bravado.

Edes departure now makes sense out of his “yankee doodle” support of the home team. Remember the Cagne movie “Angels with Dirty Faces” where at the end the villain is asked to “die pretending to be a screaming, sniveling coward, which would end the boys' idolization of him”. Manny begs back on team … geez what drama.

I think that most fans in the end will understand that the Globe’s Angels ended up with eggs on their faces for that type of TypoMania.


Anonymous said...


I think they're a bit more creative on the "left coast".

In the movie Major League, 99 was the # worn by the pitcher Ricky Vaugh character. He portrayed the “Wild Thing”.

LA is now looking for similar Wild Run.

Objectivebruce said...

Send a columnist to get quotes from fans? Now THAT's the kind of inconsequential blather that can be culled from the wires. Want to know how to tell when a broadcast reporter has nothing? It's when they do man-on-the-street or, worse, those tedious shots from bars during real and imagined big games.

The Globe shouldn't have covered Ramirez's arrival in Los Angeles? Are you serious?

As for Vinnie, he makes very few errors, especially when you consider he was and still is the best there ever was despite being over 80 and doing 9 innings solo, including a simulcast for the first three (commenting on the pictures while making it relevant to the radio audience during a slow-moving baseball game requires more mental dexterity than most of us could muster.) The Parking Lot Attendant (as Frank McCourt called by one LA columnist) requires the ticket pitches to be read and just because 11,000 were sold for one game doesn't mean every game in the 56,000 seat stadium was sold out. Although I'm not sure the 11,000 figure wasn't an exaggeration to drive the buzz. Scully (who began his announcing career doing a football game from the roof of Fenway Park during a snowstorm without an overcoat) should be in the real Hall of Fame, not just the broadcasters back room.

Anonymous said...


We are all fans and to say that our voice is “inconsequential blather” hurts so much. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words, Oh My!

The problem the Globe had was in sending an observer with The Agenda.

ob•jec•tiv•i•ty [ òb jek tívvətee ]



1. ability to view things objectively: the ability to perceive or describe something without being influenced by personal emotions or prejudices
2. accuracy: the fact or quality of being accurate, unbiased, and independent of individual perceptions
3. PHILOSOPHY actual existence: the actual existence of something, without reference to people's impressions or ideas
Get it … no personal emotions, independent of individual perceptions, and the actual existence of something.

Shill’ock Dan, and for that matter The Globe, fail on three since the Red Sox influence them. Try and tell it like the fans sees it.

Yes, sharing with us The Manny Transition could have shed some light on The Manny Situation created by Theo and the Minions. But having a shill do the reporting was doomed to fail.

Anonymous said...

Oh, by the way, don't hide behind Vinnie.

Anonymous said...


What did Shaughnessy add in that one piece that could not be culled fron the wires and watching it on TV last week? I asked that question earlier and I ask it again and you have yet to point out a damn thing because you cant.

As for quoting the fans, you seemed to think it was a great idea last week when he breathlessly reported that a fan announced that Many had to go

You truly are an idiot

Dave M

Chris said...

The irony of all ironies is that Shaughnessy is so despised by most athletes, he doesn't even bother to speak to them. You'll recall that at the Super Bowl media day, Dan was found cowering in the back of the throng as though a 'newbie.' So, the globe is paying him a King's ransom to basically cower and steer clear of the participants in Boston sports. So what's left? Dreaming up his own thoughts on the world at large, and speaking to fans. My, the globe is spending its money wisely.

roger bournival said...

I asked that question earlier and I ask it again and you have yet to point out a damn thing because you cant.

Funny, I've noticed that too...

Anonymous said...

Fellow Concerned Citizens,

Do we want to help OB, Typo Man CHB, and the Headless Horsemen at the Globe?

It can be done.

How much should we charge them?


Objectivebruce said...

Once again Dave's inability to comprehend the English language means he embarrasses himself.

There is a difference between goofy "gee this is swell" comments from the multitudes in his new town and a comment from a long-time observer of the vicissitudes of public opinion in Eastern Massachusetts reflecting that Ramirez was losing the support of the fans in Boston -- a precipitous fall from grace that eclipses any I can recall in a town that has no problem turning on its heroes (and I will concede that someone may recall someone who has gone from adored [or at least tolerated] to despised in the eyes of so many, so quickly. I can't think of anyone.)

We will now turn to Journalism 001.

Lesson One: Columnists are not objective.

Lesson Two: Reporters do not report by watching television.

Lesson Three: The point of reporting is to gather and present the facts for people who do not have the time or ability to become eyewitnesses to events, whether in person or presented over hours of television time. This is why we have reporters covering things like a)wars, b)sessions of Congress, and, yes, c) sports so that we don't have to a) use frequent flier miles to go to Iraq, b) watch CSPAN all the live-long day and c) follow athletes around from one coast to another.

Thank you.

Objectivebruce said...

Got to run. Need to write letter to The New Yorker.

Query: What What did Updike add in that one piece about Williams last at-bat that could not be culled fron the wires and watching the films.

Hope they can answer.

Anonymous said...


Propaganda 101

Check out The Nazi Machine circa 1933-1945 and look up:

Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda - as directed by Dr. Joesph Goebelles and his strategy was:

"The Propaganda Ministry used many mediums to further the National Socialist message and maintain control over the people."

Red Sox/Globe/NESN Consortium can be stale.

That is why we need objectivity and the multidute of inputs.

Please come back to the current era.


Anonymous said...


The New Yorker! You literate, pithy, Algonquin Round Table motherfucker! Give a high-five to Dot Parker for me, willya?

Your pal,


Anonymous said...

Objective Obtuse still failed to answer the nagging question of what Shaughnessy added, did he not? And despite the fact that I think he described the weather and fandom vibes in spine-tingling detail, which was definitely not de rigeur in early 60s AP/UPI wires, isn't that John Updike's picture coddling up to the words "pretentious" and "twat" in the pictionary?

Anonymous said...

jjs, I can't believe you're getting me to defend objectivebruce/shaughnessy, but yes, that 11,000 number is accurate, as is Scully's comment. Dodger Stadium holds like 55,000 people. If they were averaging 30,000 per game sellout and added the other 11,000 people who bought those tickets, you'd still have another 14,000 tickets to sell.

OK, maybe they're not great seats left, but what is Scully supposed to say? "Only nosebleeds are left, stay home?"

Anonymous said...

ignore the word "sellout" in previous post.

mike_b1 said...

LA was averaging 44,577 before the deal for Manny went through. The first three games he was in uniform, they did 53,000-plus. However, it's too early to say whether he will have a meaningful impact on attendance. Three games does not a season make (a lesson The CHB has never learned).

Btw, The CHB has never watched a game through its completion. He prewrites the story, adds a couple notes during the first four innings, files it and heads to The Fours to try to pick up 21 year old coeds (yes, he still calls them that).

Dave M said...

Professor Bruce

Thanks for your lessons

You say: Lesson One: Columnists are not objective.

I say: Well duh. But one of my consistent criticisms of Shaughnessy is that he is apparently both a columnist and reporter but he is incapable of shifting effectively between the two roles. When he reports a game story, he hides behind the columnist title so he can pontificate, editoralize, but ultimately be downright lazy and not report anything

You say: Lesson Two: Reporters do not report by watching television.

I say: You know what's funny. Shaughnessy covered Lester's no-hitter and there were a few rumors out there that Shaughnessy was not even at the game/ So maybe he is not a reporter after all? Well, duh

You say: Lesson Three: The point of reporting is to gather and present the facts for people who do not have the time or ability to become eyewitnesses to events, whether in person or presented over hours of television time.

I say (again): Well duh. What did Shaughnessy add to the dialogue from his trip to LA? Zip, nilch, nada

Objectivebruce said...

Lesson Four: Good columns include reporting but are not presented as straight news stories.

Lesson Five: "Unsubstantiated rumors" ought not see the light of day without an examination of their source or veracity.

Lesson Six: You will be blamed by factions of the public if it doesn't like the content or the hedlines. Especially the hedlines. You may ignore the lunatic fringe with impunity.

Lesson Seven: Never apologize for 21 year old coeds.

AS for the Los Angeles column, I think it provided a nice glimpse of the contrast between the hero who fell from grace here and the way the act that people tired of in Boston played in tinsel town. Obviously if you spend your days and nights glued to sports radio, internet bloggers and the 6 and a half hour often-tedious presentation of Red Sox Baseball on NESN, it added little. But a good number of the 1.8 million people who read the newspaper have other things to do.

Anonymous said...

And Bruce

And that column could not have been written in Boston because?

As for printing unsubstantiated rumors, the Globe should be taking lessons from Professor Bruce

Anonymous said...


The central issue with CHB, Village Idiot, Shill’ock or TypoMan (he does come in many flavors) is – Does he tell the truth to the 1.8 million readers who glance at his headlines? Does he have a responsibility at that level? Or is he abusing his duty to report (investigate)? Or does he thrill himself by “mass” instigating?

Who was the hero or villain in The Manny Situation? For all the detective work that the Idiot did, we the fans only heard one version – the Red Sox perspective. One could conclude that any “headline” from The Consortium would be skewed and incomplete.

So where does the fan who is willing to understand get the other perspective? They search the net and within a few keystrokes, voila, choices.

So the Globe has to fight for relevancy against the multitude of info-choices available to the fans. Sooner or later the truth comes forth.

The Editors at the Globe should be outraged that not one of their reporters “on the leading news outlet in town” was able to get Manny’s Version. Or maybe they were too busy enjoying the “spirits” at Club Sox on Yawkey Way and watching the carnage unfolding before them.

Why do the athletes in this town ignore Shaughnessy (the lead sports columnist on the leading news outlet in town)?

The fans notice the void when both sides are not represented in a genuine manner.

That is what makes Dan Shaughnessy incomplete and it torments him so.


Anonymous said...

Posted by "G." And it's fucking brilliant, OB.

"So where does the fan who is willing to understand get the other perspective? They search the net and within a few keystrokes, voila, choices."

And there it is, folks. The S.O.S. call of the good ship Globe, with Marty "Thinly Veiled Agenda" Baron at the helm.

Anonymous said...


Hatin' on Frank McCourt? Dude, you put the "pro" in provincial, bunky!

Your pal,


Anonymous said...

Reference all the shots folks here are taking at the Globe for "mouthing the Red Sox line" on the Manny situation. Based on past columns, Shank an be faulted for being Larry Luccino's outlet for 'anonymous shots' at various targets, but the problem when you try to use the Manny coverage to hit not only Shank but the entire Globe sports writing staff is that the Boston Herald and Providence Journal are all on the same line. Basically players, management, owners and coaches were all sick of him and glad to see him go (with the possible exception of David Ortiz).

Anonymous said...

Sorry for the long post but we are getting closer to the essence of what CHB and the Globe should have been investigating.

Basically players, management, owners and coaches were all sick of him and glad to see him go (with the possible exception of David Ortiz).

I am not sure about that.

The Herald at one point reported that Manny and his agent sat down with Lucchino at the end of last season and outlined their wish for renegotiating Manny’s contract. Possibly from Manny’s perspective the following was:

1. Manny wanted to hit his 600th homer in Boston
2. Manny wanted a shot at breaking Hank Aaron’s RBI while in Boston
3. Manny felt that given his physical condition it would take 4-5 years to reach those milestones
4. Manny and his agent proposed dropping the 2 one year options at $20 million each and renegotiate to a guaranteed 4 years (the Sox probably could have gotten him at $70 million)
5. Manny and his agent saw Pappelbon and Youkolis have their contracts renegotiated so why not his
6. Manny wanted to retire in Boston

According to Manny’s agent, Lucchino thought it made sense and that they would work it out. Unfortunately, they had to go through Theo. No love lost between Theo and Manny so the door was shut … “wait till the end of the season” … and Theo’s brilliant statement to FOX Sports “if Manny relinquishes his no-trade clause we will trade him”.

Manny did get conflicting statements from ownership and management and there was no way he was going to wait till the end of the year. That is why he made the commitment to get in super shape with Pedrioa and Youkolis in Arizona. He was being proactive.

Manny felt that if the Red Sox exercised the 2 options he earns $40 million but would then be 38 year old and loses leverage to negotiate.

Bottom Line – he leaves $30 million on the table by not renegotiating to a 4 year deal. Who among us would leave $30 million on the table “for the good of the team” or the company for that matter?

In the end, Manny understood that he had to give in to the powers that be. He played the part of loaf, buffoon, loose canon, and antagonist. Those acts were his only ticket out – play the charade – and leave the contradictors behind.

This could have all been avoided if the Sox were honest with Manny and stated that they had no intention of exercising his option. But the Sox couldn’t because they were afraid of seeing Manny in a Yankee uniform batting 3rd as DH ahead of A-Rod for 4 years and accomplishing all the milestones listed above.

As far as the team voting him out – doubtful. Probably what happened at the meeting was that Management informed the players that they had no intention of resigning Manny so they probably asked - was it worthwhile to keep him for the remainder of the season. It made no sense to keep Manny under those conditions. It would’ve put Manny in a tough spot – those $30 million you know.

Could this not have been the true battle? Did any reporters pursue this line of questioning? Probably not, it would have meant too much work, and besides it was more entertaining for them to let a future Hall of Famer humiliate himself in front of the fans so he eventually could be free.

Even Edes trying to claim that Manny begged back on the team was a farce (see Angel with Dirty Faces comments in previous post). What man with a guaranteed $160 million in his pocket begs for anything?

Manny had to stoke the fires while they were hot and waiting till he was 38 years old to negotiate his retirement contract was not good business from his perspective. Wouldn’t we teach our children that lesson – “get it while the getting is good”.

We are not infantile. Please tell us the truth. We can learn from it.

Just don't try and sway us towards your prejudices.


Anonymous said...

Also, what player is going to speak up knowing that they have to go back and renegotiate thier own contracts soon.

For example, Varitek - how can he say anything. He has no leverage with anyone. The list of players goes on ... none had the courage that Manny had.

Anonymous said...

none had the courage none had the courage that Manny had.

Lets me see if I get this right, Manny signed a contract that gave the team two options on him at the end. The team had all the leverage and right to not renegotiate, and not to pick up the options till they were due ... so the courageous thing to do to get out of the perfectly legal and legitimate contract is to become as big a pain in the ass as possible, half ass it on the field running bases, taking three straight pitches w/o taking the bat off the shoulder and fake an injury. I got this right?

Monkeesfan said...

Here is what you need to understand about Manny -

He wants to hit baseballs. That's it. Everything else a player is supposed to do, he doesn't want to do. He refuses to grow the hell up, and when someone takes him to task, he pouts and shuts it down. Why no one can force him to grow the hell up I can't figure out.

Anonymous said...

I think what g is trying to say (and please correct me if I misinterpretted it), is that he is asking IF the possiblity that his scenario did indeed play out. I thnk that is what he is trying to say. Not that it actualy happened.

Kudos to g for bringing at least some fresh possibilities to the table. It is, after all, very interesting how quickly Manny had his rep demolished in Boston. The sharks of the media definetly smelled blood in the water.

I also noticed how the story of the players asking management to get Manny out of here was reported by McAdam and the begging back story came from Edes. Both reporters for being... what's the best word... Red Sox "supporters".

Also note how the leading columnist of the leading paper missed out on both of these huge scoops. Interesting.

g, please correct me if I missed the gist of what you were trying to say. While I don't know how likely your version is, it does seem a little far fetched that Manny was that bad and that the Red Sox were completely innnocent in all of this.


Anonymous said...


You are correct.

Monkees fan ...

There is more to Manny than hitting a ball. He is an entertainer. And enetrtainers think in an abstract way. They don't like being locked up.

to: none had the courage that Manny had. (contract issues)

The Sox set the precedent by renegotiating with Papplebon and Youkolis. The Sox can not discriminate otherwise they will have a revolution at hand. even if it consists of one. All the Sox had to do was negotiate.


Monkeesfan said...

anonymous #38, Manny is a slugger who is also a notorious slacker. Renegotiating with Papelbon (who is a pitcher, keep in mind), and Youk (a better player and teammate than His Manniness ever was) is good baseball business. And where was Manny being locked up? You have it backwards.

Anonymous said...


The "locked up" reference has to do with his personality as an entertainer.

Manny is a free spirit. It helps him to concentarte on his hitting and ballplaying.

You are a monkeesfan... and nobody should ever change that if it makes you happy and productive in life.

Manny asks for the same respect. He probbaly knows better than any of us what his limitations are and how to deal with them.

Let him be.

JJS37 said...


Not that you'll check this, but I was watching the game of which I speak. I have MLB extra innings, I live in CA, and I'm telling you, there was no one in the crowds.

And, being a Red Sox fan, after their game is over, and it's like 8 p.m here, and thirsting for a little more baseball, I check out the Manny buzz. I'm not sure what figures anyone is quoting, but there's an awful lot of yellow seats visible in Dodger Stadium.

I also went to a game this year, and you can walk up at any time and get the best seats in the house at the ticket booth.

As far as Scully goes, yeah, he makes mistakes. In the game I was watching in one inning he misidentified two players and made a factual error on a score and never stopped to correct himself.

The guy is 80 something years old, but that doesn't mean I was wrong when he makes mistakes. I'm not taking him to task for being 80 or making mistakes, I'm taking him to task because he's hyping something that simply isn't true. All you have to do is watch the game. And if Manny was worth an extra 50,000 people going to games, then the attendance must have been like 10,000 at each game to start with.